May 14, 2025
01:09:49
Matt Hocking
Overview:
Curly Steve and Matt Hocking discuss the transformative power of creativity in addressing the climate crisis. Matt, founder of LEAP, a B Corp design studio, emphasises the importance of ecological and social responsibility in design. He shares his journey from early creative influences to leading at the Eden Project, where he implemented sustainable practices. Matt highlights the significance of B Corp certification, which he achieved in 2005, and the impact of his work on environmental standards. He also introduces the concept of "enoughism," advocating for balanced activism and practical steps like switching to ethical banks and adopting sustainable practices in daily life.
Topics:
Environment, Trees
Available on:
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What if the most powerful tool we have for tackling the climate crisis isn't technology or policy, but creativity? Today's guest believes
design can do more than decorate. It can dismantle, rebuild, and reimagine the systems we live
by. Victor Packenac was a pioneering designer, author, and educator throughout the 20th century. He said, "Design, if it's to be ecologically
responsible and socially responsive, must be revolutionary and radical." Hi, I'm Curly Steve and we're searching for a greener room.
[Music] Today I'm joined by Matt Hawking, founder of Leap, a design studio built on purpose and action. Matt brings a
life's work of planet centered creativity from leading with BCorp values to mentoring the next wave of change makers. His approach is rooted in
curiosity, challenge, and doing the work, not just talking about it. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the show. Good morning, and thank you for inviting me in and uh
helping me navigate Cornwall via bus. That's uh that's great that you came on the bus. We'll talk about that later, but uh first of all, I'd like to go back
uh just rewind a little and tell me where when did you first find creativity and how did it come into your life? Well, it's a good question.
Um and it's also I guess like what is our perception of creativity but for me in its simplest terms was was with my father and with nature living in penic
dad was although sort of a mix between a a bouncer and a scientist quite an interesting mix he was a bouncer and he was also a scientist um yeah he nature
was always a big part of us and nature's natural creativity you know and um and then lots of drawing ing doodling and just yeah art was always thing that was
a thing in school that's the thing I went after school into college that's the thing that my job came you know being a creative I didn't do graphic
design and illustration but I ended up doing creative art directing other creatives so I would say really from the you know my first conscious awareness
um and I would do these elaborate creative things in the garden I would do elaborate creative things with paper and card indoors and silver foil, you name
it. There was making playing. I didn't have things like action men or anything like that. It was either n natural creatures, rocks, crystals, um paper
cards. So, yeah. And so, so would you suggest that uh creativity has always come from nature and nature's always come from
creativity? Is it it's always been naturally aligned? Yeah. I think, you know, the the ultimate creative and is is nature.
We're inspired by everything around us, you know, whether it's the stars to the plants to the Fibonacci spiral that's used in, you know, um you know like
sunfl well is natural part of sunflowers, the golden arm, you know, to then when humans are creating something like the seed at Eden project which is
inspired by the Fibonacci by Sepia Randall Page. Um, so these it's all around us all the signs if we can feel and hear it. And actually, Curly, they
they say there's like a point where you're either a creative or you're an accountant or that but ultimately I don't believe that that's the case.
Accountancy is just another form of creativity. Absolutely. You know, it's the way our minds work at super speed to do that. It's a creative pathway. And so
it's only for me the school system at times well now at all times this kind of unfortunately hundred-year-old archaic system that needs a bit of a reboot. are
not going to get on a, you know, a sofa, but it's more like that we are then funneled into, oh, you're creative or you're sporty, you're this, but
ultimately it's creative. And then we get to a stage later on where only some people say, oh, I'm creative. Like, and then other people, yeah, I can't draw, I
can't do this. Doesn't mean they're not creative, not expressive. Absolutely. I totally agree. and and and we'll get on to um whether you think people are
creative uh whether you think everybody can be creative later on, but um tell me your your journey from because obviously so you've you've been creative since you
were this big. So tell me about your journey from this big to maybe to Eden. Yeah. So I'll try and keep this as brief as I can. Um
so yeah, my journey to to get to Eden. So school was great and I drew and I did graffiti and I things like that good stuff and naughty stuff. Um and and then
I knew my parents are very kind of cool with me kind of thing. There was never like a big push you must do this must do that. And I guess later on a really good
example of not having pressure on me. Um I did good at school. Um but where I excelled was in the art and the technical drawing space. And strangely
although I could have just gone on to six form and had the easy pathway and you know geography was my big love but um I love geography tectonic plates and
colder and things like that love a bit of old myth and and stuff but history wasn't for me and I think academically I had enough so I just put myself into the
creative arena and that meant going down to Falmouth at the time university of Fmouth had an outpost at Campborn in the block flats there a graphic design and
technical drawing I chose the wrong course technical drawing cuz a few friends were going. Mhm. Turns out that's like drawing precisely car
engines and things like that or book covers. But actually later on in life that served me well because I'm very good at art directing other creatives.
So did all that different went to another art college. So you finished university? I never finished university. Right. left a term before the end after
four years um because I felt well low I didn't get on with the head teacher I didn't agree with his teaching practice which was everyone
needs to be his style and I was like but what about my style um and um I was getting lower grades I had a brilliant bunch of supportive
friends I didn't want to leave pride my parents had backed me to go there I was in Swansea but I left in the end and Actually flipping forwards um six months
after working on a bar and a little bit of travel. I end up going to a job interview. I walked in realized I knew nothing about typography and graphic
design and that's what they were about. And I went into the interview. It was a Friday. I was the last interview the day in talk and I said I'm really sorry. I'm
completely wasting your time. I don't understand all the things you got. And they said, "Look, it's been a long week. You're the last candidate. You're here.
You come up from Cormal." I showed him my folio. I can definitely draw and and sketch and concept. I got the job. Oh, awesome. And I've played that forward
ever since. It's slightly different story, but yeah, when that never judge a book by its cover, be your most authentic self and um and I'll always
have a conversation because you never know where it'll go. But yeah, then after that, that was then like eight years. This is my Tor Bay bit. and uh
eight years of being in Tor Bay and having a base there and these two exachi directors which I didn't even know what Tachis was and things like that at the
time um had moved down London West End work uh West Country Prices was their line and then they craft helped me like reduce my more complex illustrations to
graphic and then I started really understanding typography and the power of kerning and baselines and color palettes and panones.
And then after that, you know, various ups and downs, four redundancies and lots of freelance working with Sky, Lego,
uh, Glastonbury, all sorts of things. And um, and I got disillusioned in it. This had by the age of 29, it was too easy. Okay. So, I was just making things
and people were just going, "Yeah." And paying me money and there was no challenge and um, and it didn't feel like creativity.
It just felt like well maybe that's what everyone wants it to be so effortless but I wanted more of a challenge more meaning more worth and um and and that's
where then I got a call randomly from my dad going oh there's this Eden project in Cornwall it's three miles from where we used to live there we go so I didn't
do any interview preparation I um uh didn't really research Eden I just thought I'm a graphic designer I'll go partly for my dad didn't think I'd get a
job and went down and went into a port cabin because when Eden was more port cabin than anything and then they had the main site but for the next three
years I was in port cabin city as it was called and so yeah went down there they kind of looked me up and down had one of my toughest interviews so one of the
reasons I went for the interview as well Cody was because I had been head-hunted for a while and I didn't know what it was to have an interview and I like to
experiment a lot what am I like in these scenarios now like eight years older sort of thing and yeah um I didn't think they like me and
I was a bit cocky and they were like you know why are you here and um I was just like cuz I was dressed quite corporately and I said well I've been in the
corporate world telecom sky Lego but imagine you know my uh create my you know creative world and my corporate world meeting your environmental world
any designer worth their soul will rise to what their c uh their client needs and they said thanks. That was it. Didn't know what the wage was. I walked
about 30 steps. So where the foundation building is, I don't know if you know that at Eden. Yeah. And you could look over the pit there before all the trees.
And I looked down and went, "Oh my god, this is my childhood. This is space and nature, my two big loves, you know, academically not good enough to or my
story is of not good enough to be David Atenburgh or Neil Armstrong." And that was it. And then I got a phone call literally on the edge going, "Uh, job's
yours. When can you start?" Amazing. And I was like, "So, um, what's the wage?" 50% pay cut. I didn't even get the highest brand. So, yeah. And then I was
like, "Shit." Oh, then I was like, "Um, okay. I will forever ruin this moment if I don't step into this. You know, there are plenty of jobs out there." At what
stage was Eden at that then? It had just opened. Oh, okay. So, really and the agency. the incumbent creative agency they were using on retainer wasn't able
to cope with the demand of onsite yeah material production. So I'd be the first graphic designer and actually it's quite a basic role and that's where the any
designer worth his salt is because I'd always played a leadership role in other agencies. I wouldn't say I'm the greatest creative but I've just got a
good way of seeing creative potential in both client and team member. And so I knew I could see the future where I'd always be going, I wish I'd done that.
And my eight-year-old self went, "Oh, space, you know, nature. I'm in and I'll figure out." So I just bought a house in Tori as well, right? So then that was
some round trip. Hang on. We're talking from uh Toi to St. Au. That's what 100 miles. It's a 140 mile round trip. 140 round trip. Okay. Yeah. For So for a
year I was doing that. My dad lives in St. Norto. Um, so I did stay with him. That was quite interesting. I was 30 then, moving back in with my dad. Yeah.
But actually what Eden gave me in the sort of long-winded but rapid fire journey of a guy with no design skills who was creative, learning to be a
designer, getting lots of dream clients. You think Sky and Lego would be pretty cool people to work for. Absolutely. Um, but that wasn't enough for me. We'll
talk about enoughism later. Take a 50% pay cut. the next three years I did the most amazing work I've ever done in my life. It was it was something like a
soul like soul meeting soul creative day. I don't want to get like spiritual but it was like the two things. Oh, this is why I had to do that journey of all
the other creative things because once I was here I knew how to unpick and the current way of producing things and then make it all production more
environmental. And were you were you uh were you given free reign? Yeah, I thought they would tell me how to be, you know, Eden's designer, a creative,
you know, and they were just like, "No, just do it." And then I guess that's that leadership space, isn't it? You just step in. So the client was Eden. As
far as I was concerned, that means we had to use certain papers. So we could design on anything, but actually it needs to be the right papers. Um, so I
went and started changing our print supply chains. Um, and relooking at what how we use paper. And my first comments from printers like it's going to be
expensive. is going to be this cuz not many people were using vegetable based inks and recycled paper. I said, I get it. You know, we will lead the way, but
recycled papers, vegetable based inks will become the way. And I kind of knew that in my heart. It's like a real big knowing like the path that was already
there and you're just trusting to follow it. And beautiful to have that uh that uh backup from from the Eden project. Yeah. And very necessary. Yeah. And also
costwise, you know, sustainability didn't have to be more expensive, which was the kind of conversation. And it didn't need to also be kind of hessen
either and jute and those rough. I've got no problems with them, but actually I like sexy surprise environmentalism through creativity. That's a
storytelling moment, you know, like like why you might buy a chair and and things like that. There's nothing at LEAP, the agency that spawned out of um Eden, that
hasn't been considered from where it's born to where it's been recycled from to um why we've um got it in our supply chain. I I like that. And and does does
that is that a chore for you or is that just something that happens? Cuz that's that's an interesting journey, isn't it? I think for a lot of people, they have
to they have to think how can I do this before they actually do it whereas Yeah. It sounds to you like it's a DNA comes naturally. Yeah. Yeah. It's And again, I
don't want it to sound less because I know it's hard. You know, people get stuck. You know, I get overwhelmed choosing a broadband provider, but I
don't get overwhelmed choosing the paper because I asked the questions like, you know, the paper merchant might sell me the paper that's environmental, but he
goes, "So, where's this paper from?" They're like, "Oh, it's it's the UK." I said, "No, where's the mill that the paper was from?" And actually very few
papers are made in the UK, you know, and there's some wonderful papers that sold to businesses as eco, but they originate in America and that's that's okay, but
for me, I would rather support, you know, more localized trade routes and stuff. And again, all of this came down to this. It's just like um like the
Matrix, it's like I can physically feel and see it. And the connectivity between people, planet, and creativity uh and material is is like just so natural.
Yeah. And um and that's what I say. So whereas before I was kind of disillusioned but earning a good bit of money and a good bit of freedom and and
then then I came here and I found a whole new way and I couldn't ever imagine not working that way. So yeah so so I was at Eden and the design team was
growing really rapidly. Uh lovely crew. We had designer makers. So you know where you see the exhibits those would be made by them and some of my te art
team my team. Um, we had this amazing guy, Ben Luxton, that oversaw all of us. And in the end, there was about 16 of us. We had maintenance people
maintaining the exhibits as well. And you were saying earlier that you um you wor with Chris Hines. Yeah. So Chris, I can't remember what year Chris joined.
It was maybe a couple years after me and he stayed a couple years after I'd left. So I was there from like 2020 before I set up Leap in October
2004. And we were invited different team members from different sections to go on this sort of um it's like a quite a
slightly immersive day with Chris down at the blue bar at fourth Tower. So food uh drink and then he was teaching us or showing us what it is to think in a
triple bottom line way. Okay. Say you know people plan it. This was new to you then. Was it? It was because um that would have been 2002 then. John
Elkington who originally coined the phase I think coined it of Valans in 1968 or something like that. This is people, profit, planet. Yeah. Yeah. The
three Ps as people would call it. Yeah. Um and what we had to do is I didn't have to do it in a graphic design thing. I was asked to look at transport and
logistics. They divided us into sections that we weren't and how would we do it using our skill set and mindset to do that job that wasn't ours. So mine was
to to get flowers to Eden from from Europe, Amsterdam for the shops and what would be the impact of it and that and and you know I summized by the end of it
with our group it's like why are we getting plants in the shop from abroad right you know why don't we just say that we only sell local yeah and things
and you know there's different things some of the plants they sold and again this isn't a a hit on Eden but you know they had these amazing plants that
flowers from like Africa and stuff. So, it did show you a bit of the world, but did we need to do it is the question. What is enough that for the expectation
of Eden? But what what I learned there is I really love the triple bottom line because I've never been very focused on money. Not because I have lots of money
is I've always just had enough. Not, you know, not enough if something lots of things went wrong at once, but enough that to have a good life in the region
that I love, Cornwall. So, all of it, it was a coming home experience, come to Eden. 8-year-old Matt got to be in space in nature in a a reused quarry in
Corwall and suddenly bring all my design to some of the most amazing projects I've done, working with like Future Harvest and the Peruvian Potato
Foundation. And that was more exciting than the Lego stuff. And when I do talks, I show a picture of Lego and then pictures of all the potatoes and that
that are over in Peru where the you know where potatoes originate from. Yeah. Yeah. And so all these things I bumped into David Atra once came in to work and
he's sitting there at reception in Port Gabin Sea. I'm like it's not David Atenburgh, it's Dave Adra. Wow. Why? Really super nervous. That sort of thing
happened. you know Ray Mia was there the explorer yeah spent time with him and I'd also just before I started Eden I've been up in Tibet and there was a lady
coming to do a storytelling workshop around the oral stories of traditions and we don't have um in the UK many oral traditions Celtic nations do and
especially tribal nations and I just come back from Tibet and she had left Tibet in the exile with the Dalai Lama so we went off on side and she was just
asking how was my time in Tibet and how did it deal and I'd gone to bet when I was 29 and before it was open to tourism properly. So, uh yeah, it was a really I
mean Eden was just groundbreaking, wasn't it? I mean, it still is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Must have been a great place
to um to to work and be a part of. Yeah. I mean, I guess if you think of it like a hive or an ecosystem, it was it was just really rich and vibrant. Um yeah,
it would take two hours sometimes to cross the site and as a designer, we're in a lucky place for you. Two hours cuz you were chatting to everybody. Oh,
everybody chatted back and it's hugging. So, lots there lots and lots of hugging. Um, and in the end, I stopped going out a little bit because I wasn't hitting
the deadlines and it was very deadline intensive space. Um, but the beautiful thing about creativity of any sorts, but especially being a
designer is you're we're an intersection between people, planet, education, and future. And so, like when you're on site, everybody interacts with you.
You're sort of friends with everyone and those interactions are really important process. Yeah. And you're neither high or low. You're just right.
You're just in the middle. And um so friends with operations and car park and and friends with catering because they need their menus and then the foundation
with the science teams and the education teams and the leadership teams. So we got to really be part of the whole ecosystem. So, uh, it's interesting you
say that because part of my creativity is, uh, that occasionally I'll go and buy a magazine on something that I have no interest in whatsoever and force
myself to sit down and read it from cover to cover. And without doubt, I can come up with some kind of uh, different way of doing things just just by looking
at things from a different uh, perspective. And that and and totally and and flipping way ahead here. That's why it's always really relevant to me to
have an emerging leader, a youth board member involved in everything we do, right? You know, because that's and the young perspective being acknowledged um
as an elder way. So me in one I'm in an elder space, but then there's going to be other elders above me. We need all the wisdom and all the
perspectives and those that are inheriting the space to those that um you know have been walking in the space for a long time. So, I'm a big big thing
for getting alternative perspectives. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. So, um so we went through Eden. Yeah. I had a lovely time at Eden. And then I fell in love.
You fell in love with a girl at Eden? Oh, you fell in love with a girl at Eden. Okay. And and then she said, this is about 2003 and we left in 2004. She
had a son in Wiltshire and for the first time in my life, I was like, oh, she said, I'm going to go and move back up to Wiltshire. I've been offered a job. I
was, you know, love struck puppy and and she did become the mother of my kids. We're not together anymore, but we still work together at times. I met her, she
was still good friends. We work well together. Okay. Um, so she's like a marketeteer and when we met, she was commissioning our design team to work
and her role was so association and she had a seat there and she was looking at the organic supply chains for Eden and so she wanted to do an organic wheat
festival and of course we we designed the how it looked amazing and we got to know each other. We work really well and actually we have co-parented you know
over the years since um up in 2008 but we've come into various projects. She's brought me into her company she's worked for. I've brought her into some of ours.
Um she does a lot around purpose uh life coaching and things like that. So it was kind of good mix and people still say now wow you two are really good together
but as colleagues. As colleagues. Yeah. and but you know we it was amazing but she went to Wiltshire and um and you know she's part of that inspiration. I I
kind of grew up a little bit with her as well. Even I was still very playful. So by that point I was like a 33 year old playful guy. Now I'm a 53y old
8-year-old. Um but yeah so she went for this job um with an organic herb company. So I went with her and then the thing was like wow what do you do after
Eden? you know, I couldn't imagine a job. My prerequisite for life has always been to live, work and play by the sea. So went to University of Swansea after
being in Cornwall and then got my first job in Toi. People were like, "Hey, why don't you go to London?" So, well, London clients contact me anyway, you
know, and then I could get the train up to London. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's that not I don't need that enough money to be in London and get caught in
a rat race. My creative inspiration is the ocean and and nature and being close to it and um and hence I guess why the work of Leap. But yeah, Cla CLA went up,
I followed her and I was like, "Oh, what what am I going to do? All right, I'll create my own my own thing. Um based on everything I had learned at Eden. Um, so
I would create a graphic design business, which would really be just Matt Hawking, but I wanted it to have a name because I like the cool names, you
know, like um Underworld, the the music producers, they had a design agency, their agencies. Theirs was um uh Tomato. Um I'm a big fan of um Lemon Jelly as
well, and they're both designers as well. And so they got the design agency, and then they've got their music side. Mhm. I haven't got the music side. Sorry
to disappoint you, but I just wanted a word and then I was thinking about two things. I was I was leaping away from this amazing safe haven in Cornwall
going to Wiltshire with no sea. Um and um thankfully lots of nature and and it was a leap. So there's a leap of faith. Mh. Um there was also I was very good at
leaprog. So So and that that playful mischief thing as well. So um there's always play and again you know I think one of the
big things about creativity climate and planet and futures is we need to have some serious play around it. Play is so important like and I think as as you
mature it becomes less and less uh prevalent but actually we all love to play and it's such an important part of our lives. Yeah. Yeah. And actually 100%
with you there and um also one of the things for me Curly is like creativity is playful and so to do so that's where I came up with the
idea of what leap would be and that's you know still metamorphosising I'm still learning I'm you know 20 years on I'm no I'm not I'm not a perfect leader
I haven't got it I'm learning every day I'm experimenting iterating fading is anyone a perfect leader yeah we wouldn't be I don't even like being a leader um
or managing um but imperfectly perfect. Yeah, I do use that a lot. But I mean, I like the line, you know, it's from a a film, but if you build it, they will
come. And I was told that I couldn't I was going to do Leap and we would produce the planet would be our client and it would be graphic design always
with the planet, the environment in mind. And people go, "What does that mean?" I said, "Well, you know, this 2004, it's like if I'm doing a website,
it's going to be powered by renewable energy. If I'm um if I'm buying I'm using my laptop where I am will be powered by renewable energy. If it's on
paper, it will be recycled. It will be these inks and and everything in between I'd work out. And also I'd learned quite a lot seeing other agencies interact
with Eden and stuff we had done what it what worked and what didn't in in a tourism based environment that lots of people were touching. So the maintenance
team had to mend things quite a lot. So I had all this experience of materials that worked and didn't and I took the best of it like the fine wine. M as well
as having the house wine and um and then that that's really where it went. So I created Leap. Somebody said, "Oh, does that mean life, environment, art, and
passion?" I said, "No, but I like it, so I use it." It does work. And and then I didn't have any clients, but I just said, you know, this is what I do. And
then I went out and offered my skills to a couple of charities and just said, "Look, I've got no clients." Small charities. One was a homeless charity
called the Hope Project in Exa was the first commission. Mhm. So I did that for for for nothing in return for a testimonial. They really loved it, you
know, and again because relationship they liked me and got a bit more work. They started talking about me and then um the recycle for Cornwall campaign was
required 18 months to up the level of recycling in the region. And uh Leap I won it because of my creative but more because of my sustainability. And they
said nobody was able to answer like you did about materials and how things are connected and um and then it just started to flow from there. It just is
just snowballs. I'm up in Wiltshire now and just like when I was in Tori having to travel to Eden for a year the next two years most of my clients were in
Cormal. So I was up and down so I was burning carbon just to service them. Yeah. um um had two daughters up there and then decided to come back and that's
so Leap was born and and I call it like a bat signal moment that people just started to find out about us. I think there was only two or
three businesses doing anything like us and there was Futera and Thomas Matthews and um actually Sophie Thomas and both Ed who founded Futera and St. Thomas
Matthews have become friends um and Thomas Matthews actually unfortunately just decided to call it a day and she was been going since like 1999 so even
before us. So yeah so that was that was leap and then it was just working out. So I knew that I had to use this energy and I knew I needed to use these these
use these papers and then magic just started to happen. You know who should I use for energy? Now the two main suppliers are eotricity and good energy.
Good energy were in chipam. I'm in devises said let's go with good energy. Solve is an SEO and web design agency that builds highquality sustainable
websites and strategies to help businesses grow online. They're also BC Corp, meaning they're a business for good, making a positive impact while
driving real results. As a special offer for our listeners, Solve is offering a free website audit and consultation. Just mention searching for
a greener room to claim yours. So, like I said, we signed up to Good Energy. We thought they they felt really right about the way um they used
energy, and there's a lot of great energy providers in in the UK. There were two very dominant ones at at that time breaking the the the idea of what
energy was and I just really liked good energy and they were based in Chippenham not far from where we were in devis. Yeah. Somebody from customer service had
seen that we were an agency and um must have told you know Juliet Davenport who's the you know the CEO founder and the next thing we're over there amazing
and Cla's seven months pregnant and there's me. We're wearing combats. We're not dressed up. there's a lot of people in suits and we just talked about our
values and and materiality, you know, because it things weren't so digital then and there was still a lot of paper being used and again, you know, both of
them have a role and both of them have significant environmental impact and we were just doing it in the best way for the clients and with like reporting on
it. And so we're telling them about all this and they just said, "Yeah, we want to work with you." Much the same as that Eden moment. hadn't got very far and um
yeah and then that contract was you know reality it was a h 100,000 so we're going from quite small things to to this big thing and this was many years ago so
this was 200 this was in the year yeah so that would have been set up in 2004 and that was 2005 so so that was considerably more than what it's worth
today then um well again we kept leap's ecosystem small when you're by self there's it always feels like there's more money as soon as you have team and
and process and stuff then you know so we actually at the peak of when I was just working by myself the probably only now 20 years on earns between 100 and
200,000 more than those early days of me but it was a significant step up for me in that and also it times well because Cla's own job which had gone to Wilshire
for um they didn't have the money to pay her so They're waiting on a house sale to pay for her role. That didn't go through. She's 7 months pregnant and
doesn't feel like you know it wasn't. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it was 7 months there. So, just before there when it had gone through so she didn't feel in
integrity and authentic to go and get a job. So, suddenly I was in like digital creative hunter gatherer mode and the work came you know. Amazing. So, so um
Leap is a BC Corp company. Yeah. So, we would Yeah. So um let's start by just just exploring BC Corp for for a moment. What what is BCorp? Yeah. Well, just
before I go into what is BCorp, I think it's what what wasn't there before Bor. So So creating leap as an environmentally planet centered um you
know design and impact agency. A lot of people would question what does that mean? Because they weren't used to the language sustainability. People still
really don't get the word and stuff like that. Yeah. And um that's why I say graphic design with a plan in mind and then on there then I said look if we do
this it will be this way if we do it that way you'll know the footprint of it. Um is it going to be anymore? And I said between it zero and 12%. Then we
started to get more challenge and so we started to win environmental awards and then we did ISA 14,0001 after BSA triple 5 and you'll know some of these. Well
tell us what that is just uh well they're environmental standards. Yeah. Okay. um for having an environmental management system, an EMS. So, this is
us as a small business, a chaotic creative that doesn't like Excel spreadsheets, having to fill out a Excel spreadsheet. Feel I had to prove that
this was possible, that creatives could do this and not just do the creative work for the planet, but also do the the backstory and the data to support the
impacts for transparency. Well, for and for my own there's I think there's about it's about truth, trust and and love I think and just I get caught up into it.
So the one thing about this creative journey within the for on a planet centered approach curly is everything became sticky whereas
before history and all things by geography didn't stick in my mind and suddenly I knew about all these papers and I knew all these stats you know 80%
of environmental impact is decided at the design stage 70% of the world's papers go through the hands of a creative in one way or the other this is
all because you've got an intrinsic interest in it and an empathy for the planet I think as well there's something about that care and care and
love and reciprocity for our origin space, you know, spaceship earth as Buckminister Fuller would call it. And um going back to the things, so we had
all these we started winning loads of awards like 30 plus environmental awards. Then people said, "Oh, you're yeah, you're environmental, but yeah,
what I don't see any creative awards, so felt we didn't have to prove that so much, but went for the creative awards." At this time, we're scaling up with the
clients. I've moved back to Cornwall. um two children Claire 2006 now investors in people but we knew we you know now a team of approaching 10 I think very
quick and um it was still too hard to explain what we did it wasn't an easy conversation unless you knew the ones who already
knew the bat signal as I call it they understood it they trusted you so bedroom and steps hotel and scarlet hotel they were just like we want a
creative that fits into our circular supply chain Actually language like that was already being used way before secularity was being used and you will
fit in just like our fish munger will fit in m your design they do fish sustainably ISA 1401 very complex didn't really make much difference to us um we
held it till 2015 and at the same time I'd come across BCorp and BCorp in its simplest forms is for for-profit businesses is uh
using their business as a force for good. And it original line was people using business as a force for good rather than business as a force for good
because it was people in business. And in the early days it was more like you got you know fair trade mark um for product and then bought for for
business. Now that's changed a lot and we measure our businesses you know on like well five pillars but now that's all about to change because we got some
fantastic new standards coming in and LEAP was the first and it's American it came out of America so there weren't many in the UK I've been watching it
since about 2008 just out of interest strangely not curious enough to go hey can we do this over here anyway it came to Britain in 2015 I had all the data
from ISO 1401 had all the data from investors of people so I had people on planet had the way we produce work. We had the world's only at the time carbon
calculator for paper and print. We' had that created by a science team. And so we had all these tools and all these measures. And Bor came in and for the
next year I I I went through the all by myself. People say it's rigorous and it takes time. I did it by myself on a much more archaic version than the very easy
platforms they have now. and I did it and I got a phone call because there wasn't many Borps in the world and they said, "Look, you're um
you're 23 points above what you need to to become a BC 80 points. Why have you not pressed a button?" Oh, I just want everything to be perfect. You know, I
want every answer to be perfect. It's not even about the score but my own duty is so I was overthinking and actually the way I teach um use of the VCore
business impact assessment how I help solve and things like that was just actually it's not perfect it's about a process the journey is never ending it's
not the destination about moving forward yeah and doing what you can you don't have to do all it's not about the highest points and things I I get a bit
frustrated with this kind of chase the points for sure um thankfully that's all gone now for the new standards Um but it's nice to gamify it. So yeah,
I I pressed the button after Kate Hill um who's very high level in the BE call movement and she was heading up UK and um yeah, it was a really fun moment. She
goes, "Yeah, just just press it." And I was like, and then she said, "And a new assessment's coming in." Because at that time, every two years a new version of
the BIA came in. I hate tests. It's one of the reasons I did design and creativity. No more tests. and I pressed it and a month later we scored first
creative agency well first BC Corp in Cornwall and the first creative agency in Europe to have that standard and then things exploded
but also for me the biggest thing on that was all this stuff to prove what we were just like when I became this planet centered designer Matt from his bedroom
in those those first couple years people understood it and borps like to buy from each other invest in work with support. So suddenly I'm in this whole new
community um the only creative and I didn't look at it as a a sales channel or funnel but people seem to like me and work seems to came and the work got
bigger and we got a reputation of being a nice place and um yeah that's that's where we are and that's I guess my life's work and that's why I wanted to
grow the be community here and not be the the lone nut. Um I wanted some other people to dance with me and um and now we've got you know approaching a hundred
businesses in Cornwall and Cornwall is one of the the most BC Corp areas in the country. Yeah. Second largest cluster outside of London. Um London's the
capital city for the most BC corps on the planet and the UK is the fastest growing um BCore marketplace. Brilliant. But the reason that is is because we've
actually whatever we may think of our governments and and things we've got good laws and we have a NHS we've got a health provider we have pensions state
pensions many countries don't you know America South America don't have these things so we're very lucky that UK businesses score on average much higher
on the first drafts or two drafts of going through the impact assessment than um than other businesses. Amazing. Well, you should be uh well, I'm sure you are
extremely proud of yourself for for the work that you've done there and the the um where you're at with with everything, not just not just BC Corp, obviously,
but um with the whole thing. Um which leads me on to design for change. Yes. Tell me about design for change. Well, design for change just cap encapsulating
that the work was all around change, but also still not just changing for the sake of changing. And it came from the the Gandhi line, be the change you want
to see in the world. Which I found since found, I think Chris Hines actually told me this uh that that's a paraphrase of a bigger speech that Gandandy did. So he
never actually said it. Okay. Um you have to ask Chris about that. Um he's such a wise elder. And um so what that was a that that mantra that line I was
doing design and I was in the art of change. And also the other side of things with creatives is we're this playful individuals or businesses that
come in in quite a nice way to deal with some pretty sticky stuff. So what else can we use design to change? Well, we can talk about people. We can talk about
the environmentalism of the business. So you with soul when I first met L on a a bus journey to Liverpool and we're talking about what he did. because I,
you know, I didn't know there was green hosting and I didn't know about BC Corp, but then look, green hosting and BC. Now, it's just that awareness and so I'm
not there to have a a unique selling point because I don't believe the planet and life is a unique selling point. We did get told, "Oh, you got a really
awesome unique selling point, this environmental thing." No, I need everybody to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and and so design for change was just
our quickest way of saying it. And you know, again, it's a call sign. So those that respond to it respond to it. Others they don't see it. Yeah. But what we did
in Sorl is we were on a roundabout in Sorl and I had the whole all the windows which are Yeah. about a bit longer than this room and there was a big glass
windows floor to ceiling and we'd get people just staring at our team. So I thought I'd get some contravision which is a a form of window graphic. It's not
that environmental. That's where you can see in one way and not the other. Right. Okay. And then I created this woodland scene that had dinosaurs and businessmen
and astronauts and animals and all things. And it was my representation of what's been where we are and what could be, right? So um anything from
extinction to the going to the stars and where we dream to what it is to be in business. And then it just said, you know, be the change you want to see in
the world. Designed for change. And that covered this whole thing. And we got so many people over the year goes, "You inspired me so much with your that
thing. I remember seeing it. I don't know who it was." And we got clients that way. Other people said, "It just made my day hopeful when I saw it."
Excellent. And I love and and and and moving on with inspiration there. We talked earlier about um and you've just said about Chris Hines being a a wise
elder. Yeah. Um and you were talking about how you were inspired by the youth, your elders. Tell me a little bit about that. So
um although I might be a child inside me, it's a child that's had you know experiences and growing up and so who's got set perspectives based on those
experiences. So um at COP 26 I um was lucky enough to go there. I cycled COP 26 with a bunch of other climate cyclists of 540 miles over sort of seven
days. Excellent. And uh and when I was up there, one of the things that again BC Corp, which I'm you know I've been involved in I was part of the original
18 BC Corp ambassadors to grow the UK movement. I've spoken for it. I've been at their events and out there they did this initi uh initiative called
boardroom 2030 and what do our what does the future of our boardrooms look like at at 2030 and who needs to be at the table and what do we need to be thinking
about now? And so and a lot of that was bringing in other stakeholders. you know, something that's very big for the BCore movement. It's not about your
shareholders, it's stakeholders, everybody, your community, your you know, workers, your customers, you you name it. Anyone you come into contact
with. Yeah. Yeah. And um and so I watched this sort of lovely um role play with uh young what I call emerging leaders, youth board members, the
existing board members, body shop modeled it and um I was like, "Oh yeah, I like that. That's really good." Again, I you can go my my my my you know
neurodyiverse mind was like oh grasp that what if we did that at scale and then you know and in Eden back at my home place now you know after leaving in
2004 I told them idea could I do an onmass boardroom 2030 um we sold out an event in the gallery to 100 businesses without them know the
agenda then then they got a surprise when they came in we'd got loads of youth scientists um poets artists activists
and we gathered them and on all the tables there were two of them and young people and we just let it pollinate from there and then we modeled we got good
energy which has a good future board as well. So that board ranges from like uh 12 to 18. So that would already existed with our our client good energy. They
came down and showed their role in guiding um against the board the main board. So how they work and even now from that one day which is I think 2021
I had a company say the other day, oh Matt, could you help us do some brand work? I was like, yeah. He goes, um I'm working with this guy Jack. And I was
like, Jack, I know Jack. He goes, yeah, I was sitting on his table at your boardroom 2030. I was so inspired by him. I started a new company. He's me
and him are u co-owners. Amazing. And how cool is that? Wow. That is incredible. Yeah. And for myself, you know, run another event called Goodfest.
And again, being conscious, I could talk a million miles and lots of different things and trying to stay focused to you and the the and your audience. But
again, you know, when I set things up, I couldn't create a company that isn't got environmentalism at the heart of it. Environmental action through the way it
interacts with the world. And the same with Goodfest. Once we had Goodfest, of course, it's got all that environmental, you know, we don't produce merch. We're
really conscious of, you know, our carbon footprint of all the things. Um, but it was really important to have a youth board member. And so I had been um
in conversation with a lady uh Amelia Cruz who's now a friend since and she was at our board in 2030. She was 19 then, she's 25 now. She just stepped
down from our board at Goodfest and she's been on our board for the last three years. Amazing. and we've talked and worked and shared and yeah and it's
been brilliant and I feel so much richer for it. So one of my I call it my green rider if I'm um asked to do a talk or um be on a panel or something that I'll
always have at least one emerging leader young person on the panel. Awesome. Yeah. So that's really important because it's again if we're looking at life it's
just another form of creativity and we if we need to have difficult uncomfortable conversations and really do the work that now and future
generations need we've got to have all of us at the table. Do you do you believe everyone can be creative? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because every moment
from the moment we wake up and think what am I going to do today is a creative thought. There's a billion synapses from I have no idea how many
there are. um but lost going off and that speed how this is set up today the shirt you're wearing my shirt is a creative expression we're just told that
creativity is a role is only done by a few but I believe that a chef is a creative the road planner city planner who's working out the road my god that's
a bit of creativity absolutely you know lots of logic but it's a creative expression of how to move transport around the region and things like that
and I'm really interested ed in the the the possibility of of a no one, which I I don't want to say that. That's a horrible thing to say, but you'll
understand when I explain. Um, a no one could come up with a solution or can come up with a solution. And um, someone who's not directly a creative can come
up with the solution. So I'm I'm interested in that idea that um that any first of all anyone can be creative and secondly someone out there could come up
with the solution. Yes. Yeah. I think there's a couple of little areas to that. So there is the belief in our creativity and I think is it like
Picassle of Vango said that um like everything is imitation or plagiarism because nature's already done it. Yeah, for sure. You know, there's
there's that. Um there's our self-limiting beliefs around I can draw, I can't, but yet we might go into an art gallery and see a Jackson Pollock or
something like that or a Rothco and go, I could my my four-year-old could have painted that, you know, and then why are they getting 50 million for that and the
things, you know, and this is all thing because we've all got these different viewpoints of what it is to be creative and how we see the world. Some love
natural beauty of the world. Others like the natural beauty of the city. I had a friend who uh got told when she was 12 by a school
teacher that her painting was terrible and she should never do any painting again. Great. She didn't pick up a paintbrush after that until she was in
her mid4s. Since then, she's been selling her artwork for incredible amounts of money. Yeah. and she's absolutely fantastic.
But that creation was between the age of 12 and the age of mid-4s. Yeah. She she shelved it because some someone decided to tell her that she couldn't thinking
they were probably funny or they were you know you know just their magician was manipulating. You know everything comes when it's supposed to. So, you
know, like ideas in the trade thing, ideas that didn't work in the 90s could be right now. They might come too soon. It's a brilliant book. Um, I know you
asked about books saying I've got a few books in my bag. Um, but it's a very simple book. I'm like somebody that likes to read something very quickly.
So, it's a few pictures and says it's called the path of the doer by David Hyatt um who's the founder of the do lectures and high denim, right? And um
in it is all about in a reality and the way I read it and hear it in my mind is it's about taking action that a good idea 99% of us will have the
same idea. So that may be again these are my words now a global consciousness an idea comes into the world somehow and lots of us get it at the same time but
only 1% actually are the actioners and then those 1% might not have all the tools and individuals to manifest the idea into something that works. So like
me, I'm a really good ideator. I could, you know, my mind's always exploding with new ideas, but I need what I call a transformer and operator, people that
can bring it to reality. So when I'm doing, so I'm a good director of work and I'm a pretty good creative, but there's better people. So I know my
limitations. So I'm quite easy to step aside, but be part of the whole because I'd rather see the best work that's most fitting for client and planet um than
just doing something for my own ego. So, so again, if I need illustration or video work or something else, I lean into others that can help me be more
brilliant. So, so how can we um how can we create a better future? How can we create a better future? Well, I guess there's a few tangents, you know, there
again. So, one, we need to do the work on ourselves. So, creatively, I use the word creative, we have to do the work on our inner
self. be happy internally and our own ecosystem and that will manifest that it will work on our external we love
ourselves and understand our creativity, love and selfworth which is a work in progress. Um and um I'm no, you know, Buddha or anything like that. I've not
not hit that sort of max point. It's going to be my life's work is just being the best version of myself for sure. So I think there's a in the hurly burly of
the day and the speed and just life because not not everyone has the luxury as well. Some people you know work get food sleep work you know don't get that
time but what if we could have a society where we could all work on oursel and then that made us care or naturally care for everything around us. And if we were
able to embrace our creativity so that we could have a voice um within our communities to go actually what about looking at this way or that or what do
we really need and we removed our I'm going to take this from John John O'Brien's but we left our status and our ego at the door and looked at the the
bigger picture. The other side of the better world is you know any action is better than no action and sure you know and
we could all and I hear when I do a lot of talks so many people overwhelmed like what more walk yeah I'm just trying to do I'm recycling and I'm I'm not I'm not
driving and I'm I'm not this and it's not enough and you can feel the overwhelm and go look it's not just on you. If you do the bit that is enough
for you. Yeah. And it becomes a habit or you feel you've ticked it off then you can move in. You don't have to do it all at once. Like the thing people do these
mad silly diet things like, "Right, I'm going to stop drinking food and I'm going to stop sugar and then you just get this
overwhelm. It's impossible." You know, your mind's going, "I need the sugar and there's no food and life's boring suddenly, you know." And it's the same
for the environment. What can we what can we change? What is your design for change? What is um your your the change that works for you? It could be little
things like just getting the bus like I did today. Yes, it takes longer, but actually I'm in quite a peaceful state. I on the bus and and you quite enjoyed
it, didn't you? I'm Yes, the child in me and the experimentation, but I couldn't chat on the bus. Um, it was a bit rattly, so I I I it wasn't the place to
have phone calls. Yeah. Um I've learned over the last few years um so leap when I set LEAP up as well as the how we use you know energy and paper and how we
care about people on planet was also like where do we bank and I made the decision straight away which is easy when you're starting up a business that
I'd only use ethical banks. Yeah for sure whereas my I'm still with my bank that I was a student with you know and um that that's not so ethical. Um, but
everything Leak does from the heart is as good as it can be. So, I just want to um finish up by talking about something that that intrigues me. Enoughism. Yeah.
Tell me about enoughism. Within the Enoughism, it's kind of like the triple bottom line again, but now it's kind of my own play on words and stuff. And um
it was just looking at what it is to be an activist and that we can all be an activist. You know, just doing a a good deed a day, you know, is an activist.
And then what what more can you do? But then what is enough in that activism? Um so then there's reactivism which I kind of look at is you you realize that you
do need to do something but it's quite quite late and it's going to be expensive for you to suddenly change adapt scrabble around. So you know you
haven't done the planning but maybe you have the resource and other people won't. And then the inactivist. Now if anybody's watched the film Don't Look Up
and things it's a little bit like that. And it's like an inactivist. You don't believe that there's anything that's a problem. And um so you just think this
is this is life and there is there is either no way because you don't believe what's happening or you can't comprehend it. And so that inactivist is you know
that's the end kind of thing. Yeah. You know in a suicide or anything like that. It's just that don't look up moment. It's like oh it's too late now. Yeah.
Excellent. So let's all be activists in a way and but while knowing what our enoughism is. That's insightful and let's let's all be activists and if we
can't be activists let's be reactivi activists and let's not be inactivist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to save yourself some money take action
now. Yeah. You know that's the whole thing is like take the action now. Um grow a couple of you know fruit tree. I suppose this is evidence stuff so I
won't go into that. So yes. Well, let's that that um sort of moves us nicely into the next section. So, what we're going to do now, Matt, and I I'm going
to we're going to give you a minute to talk about each thing, which be interesting cuz uh I wonder if we just say one word for each,
but Alex over there has got the uh the bell and you're going to have one minute to discuss each uh each of your top tips. And the first one there that
you're going to discuss is switch your bank to one that does not fund fossil fuels or deforestation. Yes. Yeah. And actually this is the biggest and
simplest activism thing you can do is is know where your bank is from and what they're doing. Now we've all got banks. It's now a lot easier to move a bank. Um
so Leap's always had its money in the right places. You know Co-op, Troy Doss, and now Stling Freeze as well. We use those three banks. Harder for business,
but personally, where is your money? Where is your pension? And that's these key things. There's a website called bank.gg green and that's it. Just put
bank.green. You go in, put in your bank, it will tell you what your bank is uh funding, and you can make a decision whether you would like your money to be
elsewhere, which would mean making changing bank accounts. Even if nothing else, information is beautiful. So, check it out. I'm not going to say any
more than that, but it will tell you the top 10 polluters. Excellent. Excellent. And that's uh you know, you've got some banks fueling fossil fuels, you've got
some banks fueling war, you've got some banks fueling all sorts. Most banks do all of those as much as one. Same as our pensions. And so that's the quickest and
biggest activist they can do. Okay. Number two, you do not have to do everything. Do one thing well, make it your new normal, then build from there.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with that do one thing well, it comes from a bit of experience and this overwhelm. Am I enough? But actually, rather than being
overwhelmed and getting stuck, what could I do? And it could be just, hey, I'm switching my uh washing machine. I'm only going to wash things at 20° or on
cold and you just kind of adapt. And so it's kind of like nudge theory. What's that thing I can do? I don't like composting, so I don't have a home
composter. I do throw everything out the garden. So it's again it's just going what can I do that supports my local community supports me and then what more
can I do? So it's finding what is your action again and what is enough for you to do. Excellent. You know do it well like a habit build upon it. Excellent.
And that was was that exactly a minute Alex this you're you're good at this. Well I'm getting into the enoughism now and I'm scared of
Alex now he's got a bell. I can see he's turning into a man of authority. He's going to like stamp on us. He's eager, isn't he? Yeah, absolutely. you
environmental people. That's not recorded, is it? So, um, number three, believe in better. The media often tells us otherwise, but
imagination builds futures. Yeah. So in that is if we only see a world that is limited that is what the media portray which is war death control
uh dispondency it's like you know I never watch East Enders but that's what I clearly like Eastend it's all doom and gloom there's always a problem so what
if you're just around good people and in good community that's never going to be perfect but surround yourself with that and um it's about imagination and you
know Van Go says as long as we can see the stars we can dream I think was the line and so that's that's what this is about is keep imagining better don't
catastrophize you know get that imagination going and we maybe could walk into a a better world just by believing more and believing in
ourselves and others absolutely um just I know it's going to be but if you've seen the film Creator um it shows an alternative version of AI
if AI was good doom and gloom sells papers. Yeah. Just like we Yeah, exactly. Good news doesn't sell. So number four, gratitude matters.
Absolutely. Your uh to yourself, to others, and to this life. Yes. So gratitude, I didn't realize I had a gratitude practice.
Um until I started talking to people. So from the age of about 23, 24, I just used to say thanks for what I've got. Usually the C. Yeah. Yeah. The sea, if a
relationship had gone wrong, the sea would be my healer and stuff. I'd spend time watching the way sunlight and the art of just being
grateful is an energy of frequency in itself and um and reciprocity, giving back for something you've been given as well. And so I really big believer in
that. And then as I learned words like gratitude and reciprocity, that made oh that makes sense. Again, I'm giving back for being on this planet in my way. I'm
giving back to young men at the moment for my journey as an older man. Yeah. You know, so brilliant. Um, do something not nothing. Yeah. However small, care
for your patch, think global, think hyper local. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's um Yeah. So, with with that line, it's it's more like uh act local, think
global. So just by doing our bit here, the world is big and overwhelming and there's lots of brilliant stuff out there. But can we affect it or not? Yes,
as we rise in our careers and our creative pathways and and and responsibilities, we could be a world leader, but what can we do in community?
You know, so my good friend John Brown, you know, he wanted to take action action with your vote. He joined the local Chamber of Commerce and he's now
CEO of Chamber of Commerce. He's now running it, right? Yeah. And um he's also um on his local town council in Meagisy. He's taking action with his
vote and with his word and that's where he feels he can make the most change. So what can we do each of us? And that's the the the the butterfly effect, isn't
it? That that when a butterfly, you know, flicks its wings over there, it changes what's happening over there. Yeah. Everything is interacting and um
Yeah. And we're at a really, you know, amazing yet devastating time. Yeah. But I I remain in the imagination if and I'm you know very lucky of where we are.
Yeah. Um but yeah and and John you know says vote vote with your vote you know absolutely as I say vote with your pound. Yeah. So moving on we're going to
um we're going to look at your bits of evidence now. Um and the first one which you've already touched upon is the uh the
www.bank. Green. Green. Yeah. If nothing else it's a playful thing. Whatever you do, information is beautiful and awareness and I do it at talks where
we've got everyone on their mobile phones and afterwards everyone's talking like oh my god you know so and I don't know if I've got a pension in there as
well is that a separate one or so it's the pension like changing your pension so you know two pounds of every10 goes to deforestation and fossil
fuel in a normal pension and a pension the right pension is 21 times more powerful than switching your energy provider becoming vegetarian and
stopping buying or driving an electric car. So that one thing we all got agency to do so much in this case that is the vote with our pound but we're taking
action. So tell me about the better business act. Again something was born out of the bore movement in the UK. Um because of the legal structures and and
government policy um we as BC corps we changed our article associations to go from shareholder primacy to stakeholder primacy everyone and people planet and
profit not just profit. So we've all changed our articles um to do that and it's section 172 I think it is. But what if we could get anyone to have a
business in the UK to be able to change and so for the better business act you can go along to it. I think it's elite le look after the website and you can
sign that you believe that's the law that needs to change and this is again that power of law is so important if done right. So get on there about 3,000
businesses you know become a better business. I like it. I like it. You don't have to be a be either to do it. Okay. You just anyone can say I agree
that this is the way business should be. Excellent. So the next one I've got here is the sustainable creative charter. Yes.
So, uh, one of my many hats is Goodfest CIC. So, a community interest company, take no money from it, founded in 2019, creative conversations, um, by the
beach. And each year we try and rather just be a talk like there's many events at talk, we always try and get something tangible out. So this the better
business ch the the creative char sustainable creative charter sorry about my words there um was co-created by 150 participants at goodfest at one session
including people from Patagonia and things and we all colesed like what are the things we need to do to change so and we say creative charter but again
goes back to all us being creative so it's like be bold share um be human challenge it's really simple anyone can sign up to it and pledge to do it. But
rather than pledge, actually take some action. Go, actually, how do I be bold? Well, I'm going to share more about the thing I do that's different in the way I
do the work. I love it. I love it. And then the last one on there was actually um uh Goodfest.
So, tell us a bit about Goodfest. Goodfest where the sustainable creative charter came from and many other outputs is is really how can we pollinate better
conversations where people don't feel alone and they might be you know I'm very lucky I'm in the be community so a very willing community but not everybody
has that or has a business you know that could go through it so we convened really this session these sessions once a year and a few online things where 150
people gather Um and we will bring in inspirational speakers. However, it's not really the speakers, it's all of the audience and the conversations between
the conversations. So our speakers become our participants. They stay they become part of the rich tapestry of conversations and so much impact and
change has come from there as well as nurturing. I've experienced talks, you know, about eco anxiety from a young person which I couldn't believe that
they were so close to ending ending their life. Yeah. But because they found community, they stayed in that world. And that that immediately that was the
end of it. She texted me afterwards. She goes, "I hope you know you're one of the people that kept me in this world." I didn't. But that's what inspired me to
go on to Bander Brothers to learn to be better at um listening rather than talking. Yeah. That's why we've got two ears and one mouth, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Matt, it's uh just before we go on to the last question, just tell us how we can contact you, how we can keep in touch.
Yeah, so um contact for me is I'm Matt. Hawking on Instagram. That's kind of my main play things. I'm rubbish at um doing regular posts. Um agencies, you
know, ww.ap eap.eco Eco Eco first organization in the world to get a creative agency get a domain where you have to pledge sorry to do an
advertising slot. You have to pledge. You can't have that domain without pledging to help the planet. Um and then yeah like LinkedIn uh email find me
you'll find me under Matt Hawking. There's me and a footballer called Matt Hawking. There you go. And you're not a footballer? Not at all. I'm no good with
football. Um yeah. So Matt, tell me one thing that we can all do today to make a better tomorrow. Help us find a greener room. I think I'd just have to say just
believe that you can. No matter what what it is, it's doing that something. So don't worry about size or small or comparison.
Just do there's something really good about being kind to you and kind to others. um the bank obviously it's more than one
but you know switching your bank or even just understanding yeah what your bank does and I've got a couple books are probably a bit too too late but you know
a good book from a friend Mark Shayer who's been part of goodfest is you can't make money on a dead planet really useful wouldn't you wouldn't have found
me talking about money once something old which is incredible is that you know operating manual for spaceship earth how do we look after the planet and operate
it so the future generations find a habitable space. So read a little bit, do what you can um and look at your money because all of us can be a
positive, you know, force for good in the world. Matt, you're an absolute legend. Thank you so much for coming in today and having a chat and uh I think
we'll have to do another episode uh because I know you've got lots to say. Um we'll have to bring you in again uh some of another time. I think I might
what my partner has to put up with. Matt, thank you very much. Hey, thank you for having me and fellow shirt brother. Um and um yeah, keep doing what
you do as well. Um you've got such a lovely energy and again just for me to have the conversations and the the memories. Sometimes you forget the speed
you move at. That's why I got you a little gift. Um Oh, very kind in there, which is about pausing. Thank you very much. And what is that? Thank you. All
right. Thank you. That's it for this episode of Searching for a Green Room. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Let us know what you think, who you'd like to
hear from, any topics you want us to cover. Drop us a comment. Don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See you next time.
EVIDENCE OF WHAT YOU SPEAK
- Bank.Green – A tool to instantly check whether your bank is funding fossil fuels or deforestation. He uses it in talks and highlights its impact on financial activism
- Better Business Act – A movement pushing to shift UK business law from shareholder to stakeholder primacy. Rooted in the B Corp ethos, Matt urges support for this to embed long-term responsibility into business structures
- Sustainable Creative Charter – Linked to GoodFest CIC, this initiative encourages creatives to embed sustainability in their practice. It’s both a pledge and a practical framework
- The Path of the Doer by David Hieatt – A short, picture-rich book from the founder of the Do Lectures. Matt praises it for its focus on action and the idea that good ideas are common, but action is rare
- You Can’t Make Money on a Dead Planet by Mark Shayler
- Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth by Buckminster Fuller – Both are cited as foundational texts. The former links finance to planetary survival. The latter offers a systems view of humanity’s role as stewards of Earth
ACTIONS
PEOPLE OF INSPIRATION
- John OBrien founder of Anthropy
- Hugo Tagholm, Oceana
- John Brown CEO of Cornwall Chamber of Commerce
- Kalpana Arias founder of Symbociene
- Our LEAP team
- My 18 an d19 year old daughters Grace and Esme
- So many past, present, near and far. Some simply from myths of old. Others like my fellow brothers in A Band of Brothers.
- Always my incredible yin to my yang GEorgie Upton.
CONTACT INFO
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthocking/
- https://www.instagram.com/matt.hocking/
- https://www.instagram.com/madebyleap/
- https://www.instagram.com/goodfestcornwall/
- https://www.instagram.com/goodfuckingecoadvice/
- [email protected]
